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In the first episode of 2018, George Larocque from HRwins and Martin Burns from Hireclix join the discussion on RecTech. Tune in to this hour long discussion to kick off the 2018 recruiting season. We discuss Google, Facebook, Indeed, ATS, Recruitment Marketing, Transparency and other great topics. It's a must listen!

Conversation with Leela Srinivasan, CMO of Lever

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This Recruiter Uses Marketing Automation Tools NOT an ATS to Collect Candidates

SUMMARY: Ken Forrester (@kfrecruiter) doesn't use a traditional ATS. Instead he believes in Marketing Automation Software to collect and track his healthcare candidates. He's also an advisor to a new A.I startup called TerraTal that he believes will help third party recruiters take back their industry.

SUBSCRIBE: on iTunes on Google Play or SoundCloud

TOOLS MENTIONED: A.W. Forrester, Mautic, TerraTal

QUOTABLE: "A.I. does not replace a recruiter...What it does is it takes care of the top of the funnel type activities that a recruiter would do. And it puts the recruiter in a position to work with only qualified and interested candidates, or the ones that are a good fit. "

-Ken Forrester


Welcome to RecTech, the podcast where recruiting and technology intersect. Each month you'll hear from vendors shaping the recruiting world, along with recruiters who will tell you how they use technology to hire talent.

Now, here's your host, the mad scientist of online recruiting, Chris Russell!

Chris Russell: That's right, it's time for RecTech. The mission of this show is to help employers and recruiters connect with more candidates through technology inspired conversation.

If you listen, you'll hear both recruit and HR tech and there's talk about how they use tech to find talent.

Alright, first, this episode is sponsored by JobsInTheUS, they're our new sponsor. If your company needs to hire more local talent, JobsInTheUS.com, which you can post jobs for free on their national job search engine. They also operate 51 local states for every state in the country including Washington, DC. They've been online since 1999 and the job webs they power help you connect with more local candidates. You're gonna learn more at JobsInTheUS.com.

A quick note before I bring in our guest here, if you are in Boston on October 19th, come see me speak at RecruitCon. It's a one day recruiting conference that will be held at Aloft Boston Seaport. I'll be speaking on my social style, "Is your company website killing your recruiting game? How to tell and what you can do to fix it", so, I'm excited about that. My first speaking gig of the year, long overdue. And looking forward to spending a day or two in Boston up there.

You can google RecruitCon and use the discount code "Russell" R-U-S-S-E-L-L, to get $50 off the event ticket, if you want to go and save a few bucks.

Now, onto our guest. Ken Forrester is the president and founder of A.W. Forrester Co. It's an niche agency recruitment firm that focuses in the commercial health insurance industry. He started his recruitment career in 1990 as an agency recruiter. He's received rookie of the year honors, top recruiter, and highest placement fee awards. Ken believes his key to success is being able to incorporate non-recruitment solutions with traditional recruitment tactics. And we'll talk about that today. 

He is inbound certified through HubSpot and an avid user of marketing automation technology, where he's developed a strategy for sourcing and nurturing prospective candidates. He also serves in an advisory role to TerraTal, a startup data science driven recruitment platform that implements machine learning technology into their recruiting and hiring process. And we'll talk about that today as well. 

His objective is to consult with employers on best practice strategies for optimizing the hiring process. Ken, welcome to RecTech. It's great to have you.

Ken Forrester: Thank you Chris. I appreciate being here.

Chris Russell: We're gonna talk today about artificial intelligence and how it's gonna impact industry recruiters overall. And how you can capitalize on that industry knowledge. But first let me ask you, you work in ... You recruit in the commercial health insurance business. So what's that like these days, all this crazy political health care stuff going on, has it been good or bad for business overall?

Ken Forrester: Yeah, good question Chris, thanks for asking. Yeah with all the changes taking place, it's making the business a lot more complex. Guys who've been in the business for years, they really don't know what to do. And the younger generation, they're not really that focused on really learning the nitty gritty. So, it's creating a lot of challenge and at the same time, a lot of opportunities. But, the challenge remains the same, you know, how do you recruit top talent? And that's where I actually come in.

Chris Russell: Yeah.

Ken Forrester: And you know, like I said, I've been doing this for quite a while.

Chris Russell: Is there a lot of churn going on among health care companies, or what would you say is happening there?

Ken Forrester: Well, you know that's always been the case. Because in the insurance space, you know it's a lot of the old boy network, if you will. These guys have not really learned how to do marketing the traditional way. It's basically relationships. Taking someone out to golf and stuff like that. And with all this technology today, it's like I said, it's making the business a lot more complex though. They are struggling in terms of you know how to get customers, how to really build their business, and how to retain the customers that they have. 

Chris Russell: Right.

Ken Forrester: So just like, we are the industry, it's kind of the same challenge.

Chris Russell: How big is your team Ken?

Ken Forrester: We are three people right now. Three and a half actually. 

Chris Russell: Okay. 

Ken Forrester: And-

Chris Russell: And where are you based?

Ken Forrester: I am in south Florida specifically.

Chris Russell: Okay.

Ken Forrester: And you know approach to recruiting is always to keep my overhead low, in this case it, you know, increase your profitability.

Chris Russell: Sure, sure.

Ken Forrester: So, I like to work and do other things at the same time you know, from a personal perspective.

Chris Russell: Gotcha. So let's talk tech quickly, what ATS do you use down there?

Ken Forrester: Applicant tracking system. I use a number of applicant tracking systems over the years. The one I use a lot, I'm not sure they're still around, was Sendouts I think they've been acquired by Bullhorn. But today, I use a marketing of automation software called Mautic. 

Chris Russell: Mautic.

Ken Forrester: It can be customized, they have the same functionalities as the typical applicant tracking system. But, it goes a lot deeper.

Chris Russell: Okay.

Ken Forrester: Specifically you could create web pages, which you use to advertise jobs, and these things are tracked with a URL, if you will.

Chris Russell: Okay. So a landing page.

Ken Forrester: And it's called a [crosstalk 00:05:46]- Say that one more time?

Chris Russell: A landing page then.

Ken Forrester: Exactly, exactly. So you can use a landing page to advertise jobs and everything is tracked. And, you can see the activities that are taking place when someone opens an email, how it links to the job. So you know exactly who to talk to, or who to call at the right time. 

Chris Russell: Does it store resumes too though?

Ken Forrester: Yeah, resumes can be uploaded, just like any other document. 

Chris Russell: Okay.

Ken Forrester: And it could be attached to that person's record, just like ATS. But, this is not something ... They had someone actually went out and say, "Yeah, we're gonna make ATS do, upload resumes, it's like the typical ones." You have to have some type of expertise to really put that together. 

Chris Russell: Okay, so again, it's called Mautic, Ken-

Ken Forrester: It probably works very effectively-

Chris Russell: Yeah, it's called Mautic, so it's M-A-U-T-I-C, right Ken?

Ken Forrester: Say that one more time Chris.

Chris Russell: It's called M-A-U ... It's spelled M-A-U-T-I-C?

Ken Forrester: M-A-U-T-I-C.com. 

Chris Russell: Okay.

Ken Forrester: And there's a free version, so recruiters can sign up for it.

Chris Russell: Okay, so Ken, why did you opt in for that versus a traditional ATS when you were ... For your recruiting? I mean what was the reason behind that?

Ken Forrester: That's a good question. I would say if I look back at my recruiting career, I've always done it a little bit differently. Specifically, when job boards came out, I was building a job board at the same time. When social media became a part of recruiting, I was setting up social media type groups in that respect. 

So today, marketing automation is the more cutting edge, if you will. And I utilize that because there's a lot more to recruiting than just the traditional way. If you look at marketing in that respect, it's about identifying prospects, nurturing those prospects. And it tells me the right time to reach out to those prospects. No different than recruiting. So that's what I really liked about it and it's a lot cheaper.

Chris Russell: A lot cheaper. Okay. What does Mautic charge you?

Ken Forrester: Like I said, of course there's a free version, and after that there's a ... You could get in a sliding scale. The one I have right now is $1,000 per year. But I have unlimited email, unlimited records, and the only thing it does not come with is support. Meaning that, you can reach out to someone and say, "Hey, I have a problem, can you help me?" 

But, as part of the times, it's learning how to use marketing automation and with the knowledge I have in recruiting, I've been able to connect those dots. So, this is something I plan to at least present to recruiters so they can incorporate that in their business as well. 

Chris Russell: Gotcha.

Ken Forrester: That's something I've been working for quite a while. 

Chris Russell: Yep. Now you do a lot of sort of email contacting through this platform? Tell us more about that aspect of it.

Ken Forrester: Yeah. Let me just give you an example, let's say that you're trying to fill a job. And you've identified individual let's say in Dallas. Structure an email, but you can make it more personalized. And if you send an email out to those individuals, then you'll be able to determine right off the bat, which individual has opened your email. Which individual has clicked on the link to that has taken you back to the website. 

So you can tell what everyone has done. And the more activity you see from one particular individual then you know that's most likely the person to reach out to. And when you do reach out to that individual, they know who you are. They have an idea, what you're trying to do. So it makes it a lot easier for them to return your phone call, when they leave a message for you. That's what it does.

Chris Russell: Right, okay.

Ken Forrester: They kind of sell you before you're able to sell them.

Chris Russell: Alright, so tell me more about sourcing. I mean how are you sourcing your candidates, are you using any tools for that? Obviously you're using LinkedIn and things like that, but any other specific tools or extensions you might be using as well as part of your day to day activities?

Ken Forrester: From a source of perspective, since I work at mixed market and I've been doing this for quite some time. I pretty much know who all the individuals are, they're in my database. I also use LinkedIn as well. But I also use this TerraTal. Should I get into TerraTal right now? Or is something-

Chris Russell: Yeah, you can talk about it briefly. So you're an advisor in this new AI startup called TerraTal, so I guess what is that and how'd you get started with it?

Ken Forrester: Okay. Well TerraTal is a recruitment solution that is driven by machine learning and artificial intelligence. And it's whole objective is to find talent in places that no one else is looking. And more importantly, it can identify a value and talent that is overlooked. And at the end of the day, I would say that it's gonna be used as a uberization of agents and recruiting. Did you get that Chris?

Chris Russell: Yeah.

Ken Forrester: Uberization. I say this because it's gonna take recruiting beyond just a placement fee. It's gonna produce more ways for recruiters to generate more revenue. Anyway to get back to the source and aspect of it, it's pretty unique. The way it works, I think I have to give you an example. 

Chris Russell: Sure.

Ken Forrester: But, it utilizes applicants from multiple employers and the AI, I like to refer to it as an agent. It doesn't matter where the applicant comes from. It could be from applicants applying to jobs, it could be from recruiters inputting their candidates into their database. What it does it translates the job description into numbers. And it also translates the resume into numbers. That's the language that the computer can understand. And it kind of runs all the-

Chris Russell: Numbers like a score?

Ken Forrester: Absolutely.

Chris Russell: Okay.

Ken Forrester: So it matches the applicants with the job description, and it provides a score.

Chris Russell: Okay.

Ken Forrester: And let's say the score's from one to ten, ten being the highest, one being the lowest. If it's a ten, then you know that this person is someone who's worth talking to. So what it does essentially, if you start out with 100 resumes, right off the bat, it can tell you which applicant is the best one to talk to, just based on the job description. 

Chris Russell: Okay.

Ken Forrester: So, it saves the recruiter a lot of time.

Chris Russell: Okay.

Ken Forrester: In terms of sifting through resumes. 

Chris Russell: So now how do the-

Ken Forrester: But-

Chris Russell: Where does the resumes come from? Tell me more about, are these something you have to upload yourself, your own database, do they come from other sources? Tell me more about that part of it.

Ken Forrester: The resume comes in three different ways. It comes from applicants applying to job vacancies. So the first step of the process is for each applicant to answer some questions about themselves. 

Chris Russell: So is that sort of like a job posting kind of built in? Is that what you're saying?

Ken Forrester: Yes, yes. So if they apply to a job, they have to upload their resume, and then they have to go through a survey. It's the same type of questions that a recruiter would ask someone to determine if they are qualified for the job.

Chris Russell: Yeah, pre-screening questions, okay.

Ken Forrester: Exactly. And the answers in either multiple choice from a drop down window. But basically every answer is attached to a number. Inside the system, it's like just running a ... What do you call the stuff at the grocery store again? ... It's like running bar codes in that respect. 

The other one comes from recruiters like myself who have database of ... I've got maybe like 10,000 candidates in my database. If I introduce those candidates to TerraTal, then I don't have to cold call anyone, I don't have to track anyone down with emails. The system will determine which one's the best one's to do. And also, it could be from referrals as well. So anyone in the system can refer others. So, basically, instead of the applicant-

Chris Russell: So let me stop you there. So if ... Okay, so you got people apply to job postings through TerraTal, if you have a referral. So, are you sharing all that data with everyone else in the system?

Ken Forrester: Good question Chris. Everyone operates from the same database. It's not compartmentalized.

Chris Russell: Okay. 

Ken Forrester: But-

Chris Russell: It's one resume database essentially.

Ken Forrester: Exactly, exactly. But it's the AI that controls all the activities in the database. It is trained to do it. So it takes all the greed, the self-interest, and everything that you don't like about agents and recruiting, out of the picture. So basically it puts the employer first. Meaning that you want to match the employer with the best person available, the best talent available. It puts the candidate first. 

That means that, it's very important for the candidate to be in the right job. And it puts other recruiters ahead of you. Meaning that you will ... Any job that comes in, everyone is connected with each other so, every recruiter will try to determine if a new job or if their candidate is a fit for the job. And the system will tell you that right off the bat. So it's kind of like a split placement, if you will. But it's done from an automated perspective. 

Chris Russell: Okay. So Ken, tell me ... Let me play Devil's advocate for a second. Why should I trust a machine to match the right candidate to a job? Does it really work?

Ken Forrester: That's a good question. It boils down to numbers. If you go to the doctor and they're looking at your blood test report, it's all numbers. But they can take a look at your numbers and tell you exactly what's taking place in your body. If you go to an accountant to look at your tax return, they can give you an accurate picture in terms of what has taken place. 

So, numbers will give you an indication in terms of what has taken place in the past, and what activities mean today, and they can also project in the future. So when you bring things down to a science, it cuts through ... Well, they say that numbers don't lie. You've heard that before? 

Chris Russell: Sure.

Ken Forrester: And it also cuts through a lot of crap. In that respect. So it's not perfect, but that's the beauty of artificial intelligence. It kind of gets smarter the more you use it and also the bigger the database. But it does not replace a recruiter, Chris. What it does is it takes care of the top of the funnel type activities that a recruiter would do. And it puts the recruiter in a position to work with only qualified and interested candidates, or the ones that are a good fit. 

Chris Russell: Gotcha.

Ken Forrester: So again, it doesn't replace the recruiter because the recruiter will need to develop a relationship with the candidate. The recruiter will have to make sure that the offer is right. The recruiter has to make sure that the candidate resigns effectively. And to avoid all type of counter offers in this place. 

Chris Russell: Right.

Ken Forrester: So what this does is move to the top of the funnel the-

Chris Russell: The short list.

Ken Forrester: The hard, repetitive type work and it allows the recruiter to focus on the bottom of the funnel's top activity. 

Chris Russell: Nice.

Ken Forrester: Does that make any sense?

Chris Russell: Yeah it does. I mean, I think AI's going to assist recruiters in the future and not replace them overall. So it sounds like you're in agreement there. Ken, how big is the database right now at TerraTal? I mean, do you have any idea of how many resumes or profiles are in there?

Ken Forrester: Good question. We just did a re-launch about a month ago. So I deleted like 15,000 resumes and we're looking to have a couple of hundred thousand before the year is out. So, part of my purpose is to get the message out or to have conversations about this to recruiters. Because ... Agents and recruiters that is. Because we feel that agents and recruiters are in the best position right now to take back control of recruiting. Specifically, Monster has kind of jumped into the game and LinkedIn. And before that it was the agents and recruiters who actually played the biggest role in recruiting. 

And now with AI coming into the game, who knows where agents and recruiters will be? So we feel that if we can arm agents and recruiters with the tool that will ... I would say transform them from just a recruitment vendor to more of a HR strategist. And provide tremendous amount of other ways to generate revenue. And I feel that agents and recruiters can play the role that they had played before all this technology. So that's kind of what-

Chris Russell: So agency recruiters strike back. Is that the message?

Ken Forrester: That's a good way to put it. Because right now, if you look at from an agent's ... A recruiter's perspective, it's all about placement fees. And, I'll give you an example. Let's say that someone called me and this person was a good fit for a particular organization. And I call up that organization and they say, "Well, you know we don't pay agency fees." What do I do? I immediately try to pick up and go to another organization. 

Chris Russell: Right.

Ken Forrester: But the question is, what if that person was a great fit for that organization? Yeah, so are we really putting the organization first or the candidate first? Or are we putting the agency fee first? So, yeah that's an area that's ... Kind of needs to be disrupted. And there's ways to do that ... There's multiple ways in which recruiters can generate fees other than just that one arrow in the quiver, if you will-

Chris Russell: So, you're saying that this technology would help them uncover these candidates and so that will kind of force the employer to use them?

Ken Forrester: Yeah, well we feel that agents and recruiters are in the best position today to go after employers and also candidates. Because LinkedIn has what, over 500 million resumes or profiles. And I'm willing to bet that agents and recruiters have personal relationships with those individuals on LinkedIn. They have better relationships with those profiles than LinkedIn does.

Chris Russell: Sure.

Ken Forrester: So they were the ones in my opinion that kind of put LinkedIn on the map because they were the early adopters. And also, they are trying to find jobs to work on by reaching out to employers. If you could put a tool in their hands that's gonna make them more effective. And a tool in the employer's hand, which will help them reduce recruitment costs and identify the best person, then everyone wins. 

And that's kind of what TerraTal does. So it allows the recruiter to utilize the platform to do the top of the funnel type work. And it allows employers to really save money. And also, there's two ways in which recruiters can generate revenue from utilizing the same platform.

Chris Russell: How?

Ken Forrester: The first way, is they can use it in their business. You know you have to ... You know you're busy going after the chase. You've gotta find the right candidate. So, here's a tool that's gonna help you to do this. So, it's gonna free up your time so you can spend more time working on multiple deals. Or, you know you can recruit employers. So, you can sell the same platform to any amount of employers you choose. And the way you generate revenue by introducing the steward to employers, is that you will get a commission from ... When an employer signs up, when an employer renews, and every time an employer utilizes a platform. 

Let me just dive into the last part. I know all this is pretty new, Chris. So just interrupt me before-

Chris Russell: Okay.

Ken Forrester: Because I have a tendency to speak really fast when it comes to this. So, let me just focus on when an employee lies a platform-

Chris Russell: So an employer can use TerraTal as well?

Ken Forrester: Exactly, and it's the very same platform. This is totally new. You've gotta see it in action. It's kind of unbelievable. But, here's how the recruiter generates fees when the employee lies a platform. Let me just use an example, let's say that an employer's utilizing a platform and this employer has maybe ten jobs, or ten job vacancies. And let's assume that 50 applicants will apply to that job vacancy. What TerraTal does is, it identified the applicants in numerical order in terms of the ones that may be the best fit that a recruiter can reach out to. 

But in addition to that, it will look at the employer's job description, and then it will look through the entire database. And it could be 15,000, and it will bring back an elite group of talent that will be more of a better fit for the employer. So now the employer have a choice. Do I take a look at the ones who applied to my job, or do I look at the ones who came from the huge pool? Most likely, the ones from the huge pool would be a better match. But in this situation, the employer will have to pay a fee to access those candidates. 

The employer will be able to see the score because we talked about a score earlier. That this person might be a good fit. And in addition to that, the employer can see a detailed report on that particular applicant. And the detailed report is something that is similar to you bringing a candidate for an interview, and after rounds of interviews, you can learn a great deal about this particular candidate-

Chris Russell: What does that report say? Yeah.

Ken Forrester: Yeah. So the recruiter can take a look at the report to determine if this person is a good fit. If they say, that you know, "It might make sense to talk to this person." Then that employer will have to pay a $200 fee to obtain the candidate's name and contact detail. So everything is on that report with the exception of the name and the contact detail.

Chris Russell: Okay. 

Ken Forrester: So-

Chris Russell: Is any of that fee shared with the recruiter who got that job up there? The resume up there? Let's say-

Ken Forrester: Absolutely.

Chris Russell: It is. Okay. And I guess TerraTal take a piece too?

Ken Forrester: TerraTal takes a piece and each recruiter shares a little piece of it. 

Chris Russell: So, it's not so much-

Ken Forrester: So, and this is on an automated basis-

Chris Russell: Okay, so they can get paid [crosstalk 00:26:24]-

Ken Forrester: What was that?

Chris Russell: You know paid per contact if you will, as well.

Ken Forrester: Exactly. So, instead of having what, 10,000 candidates in your database, you may turn those candidates into qualified leads for other recruiters or other employers. Because how many can you work with at the same time?

Chris Russell: Yeah.

Ken Forrester: And we anticipate that this will be something similar to the stock exchange. Where you're gonna have multiple of these transactions taking place. So, my vision is that every day will be a pay day for recruiters. And it doesn't mean that the recruiter has to change their model in terms of what they're doing day to day. But the reality is that there's a change that is in front of us, and if we're not reacting to that change. Some of us may get caught flat footed. Specifically I'm referring to artificial intelligence. 

Chris Russell: Yeah.

Ken Forrester: So, this is what I envision. And I've been doing recruiting for what, 24 years, 27 years, exactly. So I know the ins and outs. And I recognize something good when I see it-

Chris Russell: Yeah. And you said you actually placed the guys who built TerraTal, right? So tell us about how that got started.

Ken Forrester: Yeah, I actually placed them twice. Maybe 20 years ago I took them out of a very small company and put them into a major organization. And I would say that has been the secret to myself in recruiting, Chris. Is, I kind of keep in touch with everyone who I placed. 

And I would say for the vast amount of ... The majority of my recruiting career, it was not the in the trenches recruiting. It was basically introducing someone I know to someone else that I've known. And what has happened is that I've been around so long that the majority of the people that I've known, they are approaching the retirement stage. So, they are, they're skills are not that in demand. 

So you know, you get to that self-actualization stage in your career where you say that, "Well, should I start over or should I do something new?" And with the technology that's out here today, that wasn't around when I got started. I think this is a very exciting time to really start over. And the question is, if you were to start over, what will you do recruiting ... Would you build your recruiting business the same way that you did 20 years ago?

Chris Russell: I think the answer is definitely no. And it's an interesting concept Ken, I think the main challenge will be to you know, of course you know, mass ... Get enough resumes in there to kind of make it work. To start that market place. But I do think, that it's a media product out there, in terms of sort of like a repository of resumes that recruiters across the country can share. And tap into and get paid for as well, is something that doesn't exist today, but it should. And it sounds like TerraTal is trying to do that. So, have you used it- 

Ken Forrester: Exactly.

Chris Russell: Yourself to find a place a candidate?

Ken Forrester: Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. 

Chris Russell: Tell me that story quickly if you would.

Ken Forrester: I use that along with my marketing automation strategy. You see, the good thing is that if you're able to successfully get your candidate to create a profile in the exchange. And like I said, you don't have to really do the hard work part or the time intensive part of it. So, it makes it a lot easier to identify the right talent. 

I've actually just started maybe a couple of months ago, a lot of the time I've spent in the time stage of it. So right now, I'm just really trying to get conversations started, because this is something that is totally new. And when something's so new, it's kind of difficult to really get your arms wrapped around it. 

So the more conversation that I have, the more folks that I have, then they can actually visualize the concept and the platform is something that is also very easy to use as well. It kind of mirrors the same agency recruitment model that I grew up with. Where if you have maybe let's say an agency with about 25 recruiters, those 25 recruiters collaborate with each other and share in the talent pool as well as the job postings, even though they're competing with recruiters outside of the organization. 

So, what TerraTal does is, it creates that agency environment and that can be done at scale. Like I said, it takes the zero sum game mentality out of the agency recruitment process, if you will. And it takes the greed and the self-interest out of it. And that's where the artificial intelligence part really adds value. In my opinion.

Chris Russell: Nice. Well Ken, I certainly appreciate the advice today. I guess last question for you, what kind of advice do you have for recruiters out there when it comes to using AI or other technology to find talent?

Ken Forrester: I would say, do not be afraid to use AI because, artificial intelligence will not replace recruiters. It may replace some of the function of recruiters, specifically at the top end. From an agency recruitment perspective. It will replace the cold calls, the chasing after candidates, the emails, trying to find the right person from a corporate recruiting perspective. It's gonna take ... The looked at screening the resumes, phone screening, and conducting interviews with the wrong candidates. 

Wrong candidates are the ones who will not make it the finalist pool, if you will. So, again, it will not replace recruiters. It will take the place of some of the functions of recruiting. So that would be my advice.

Chris Russell: Alright, well Ken Forrester, thanks for joining me today. How can people connect with you online and with TerraTal?

Ken Forrester: Yes, certainly, you can connect with me on LinkedIn and also I'm giving my email address, which is ken@awforrester.com and at Twitter @kfrecruiter. 

Chris Russell: @kfrecruiter. We'll be sure to put those links in the show notes Ken. Thanks again for talking to us today.

Ken Forrester: Thank you Chris, I really appreciate it.

Chris Russell: Yep, and also you can find TerraTal at TerraTal.com, TerraTal, and we'll link to that as well. That will do it for this edition of the RecTech podcast. Thanks again to our sponsor and remember to check out JobsInTheUS.com for your local hiring needs. Follow me on Twitter @ChrisRussell or visit RecTechmedia.com.